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Author Topic: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.  (Read 18233 times)

Offline Ronin356

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New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« on: August 09, 2012, 12:04:17 PM »
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:48:51 PM by Ronin356 »

Offline CMorgan

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 12:17:58 PM »
oooh, i dont think i like this. They basically take your comic pages and display it on their own site. I see The Meek up there but I doubt she would give permission to have that up there. Am I missing something here?

Offline ReinderDijkhuis

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 01:11:44 PM »
Oh dear. THe Meek is credited to JimSmith0789 who is presumably the person who listed the comic. This may have been done in all innocence, but something tells me this is unlikely.
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Offline varethane

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 01:18:04 PM »
Looks like the Meek stuff was uploaded by someone called 'jimsmith0789', so...... yeah, going to guess it's a little on the shady side. :X They're just waiting for a cease & desist letter from someone.

I will grant that their navigation to browse between comics certainly looks reader-friendly compared to sites like The WebComic List and inkOutbreak, what with having the comics split up into genres right on the front page instead of sorted by popularity or whatever's newest, but their content doesn't look like it was legitimately acquired, which makes me reluctant to even say that much.

It seems like this site is more designed to be reminescient of manga scanlation hubs like Onemanga and mangafox, rather than a webhost to allow creators to customize their own space and engage with readers. Unfortunately it looks like they've taken on board the legal and ethical liabilities associated with those sites as well.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 03:13:51 PM by varethane »

Offline Mr. Average

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 02:56:24 PM »
Yeah this is not cool. look at their terms of service. It looks as though you're granting them unlimited license to your work. Screw that.  They can keep the sidescroll if that's what it means.

Or, perhaps to phrase it in less absolute terms, they need to make a major revision to their terms of service, and establish much better policing of their content.  Remixing people's work and granting themselves unlimited license to do so, is not confidence producing.

--M
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 03:49:09 PM by Mr. Average »

Offline neekaneeks

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 04:54:54 PM »
I went ahead and let Dershing know as well as a few other comic artists he's posting for as well.

Edit: that is seriously UNCOOL!

Okay everyone I know is now informed and the word is spreading. That site is getting hit with a lot of polite take down requests, but DMCA's are up next. They are hosted on GoDaddy so it would get taken down very quickly if they see more than one turned in.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 08:18:07 PM by neekaneeks »
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Offline Ronin356

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 09:48:29 PM »
I went ahead and let Dershing know as well as a few other comic artists he's posting for as well.

Edit: that is seriously UNCOOL!

Okay everyone I know is now informed and the word is spreading. That site is getting hit with a lot of polite take down requests, but DMCA's are up next. They are hosted on GoDaddy so it would get taken down very quickly if they see more than one turned in.

okay...It's not cool. I'll edit my last post.

Offline neekaneeks

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 10:09:46 PM »
okay...It's not cool. I'll edit my last post.

I think they had a nice idea, just really poor execution. They are archiving comics without creators consent and are taking traffic/ad revenue away from them by doing so. Also some of those comics have publisher who would not be happy seeing 3rd party hosts representing their clients.

In other news @ComicPanda finally made a twitter reply and said they are working on fixing the situation. However, they haven't made a very good first impression to the webcomics community with such a disregard to creator rights.

I'm heading to bed, hopefully this will be fully corrected in the morning.
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Offline ReinderDijkhuis

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 10:26:55 PM »
I think at this time we should give Comicpanda the benefit of the doubt as far as their own intentions are concerned. However, they should be very clear about what their system is and is not intended for, and make it very clear that their Terms of Service forbid the posting of unauthorized work. Edited to add: that should include actually forbidding it explicitly in their Terms of Service.

Generally, when you start any website, you have to ask yourself how it's going to be abused and both take preventative measures and set up visible processes to fix abuse after it happens. You can never prevent abuse completely, but you should do what you can, and I think Comicpanda have been very naive about this.

There isn't anything stopping me from posting The Meek as my own comic on ComicFury or Drunk Duck, by the way, and I'm sure people do abuse the system from time to time. The difference is that these other sites have known reputations, and have channels in place for stopping that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:32:53 PM by ReinderDijkhuis »
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Offline Mr. Average

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 03:18:42 AM »
I think at this time we should give Comicpanda the benefit of the doubt as far as their own intentions are concerned. However, they should be very clear about what their system is and is not intended for, and make it very clear that their Terms of Service forbid the posting of unauthorized work. Edited to add: that should include actually forbidding it explicitly in their Terms of Service.

Generally, when you start any website, you have to ask yourself how it's going to be abused and both take preventative measures and set up visible processes to fix abuse after it happens. You can never prevent abuse completely, but you should do what you can, and I think Comicpanda have been very naive about this.

There isn't anything stopping me from posting The Meek as my own comic on ComicFury or Drunk Duck, by the way, and I'm sure people do abuse the system from time to time. The difference is that these other sites have known reputations, and have channels in place for stopping that sort of thing.

Well said. Their system has potential, but this is a rather serious opening fumble. I was particularly taken aback by their terms of service, which gave them rights to make derivative works and develop new products with your content even if you stop using their service. I know what they MEANT, but it was so broadly written as to be a real hazard to creators' IP rights. I dig their enthusiasm but they came at it backwards.

It is at least positive that they seem to have responded promptly, albeit defensively. I have no doubt that they're sincere, but sincerity is overrated. It's just a shame to step up to the plate with two strikes against you: bad content policing and bad terms of service.

--M
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 03:20:59 AM by Mr. Average »

Offline T III

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:28:42 AM »
I just caught a bit of this on twitter last night before bed. Looking at it now, it still seems that their terms of service and the content on their site not being policed properly are a massive issue. Not only has it potentially ruined their reputation permanently before they've even started, it's also very unprofessional on their part.

Yes, they've been quick to apologise and "look into" fixing these issues. But, their main defence seems to be that their site is in "alpha" and not yet launched. A live site is a live site, and regardless of intention they've allowed copyrighted content onto their site with minimal policing.

Also, when established webcomic creators contact you and say "that's my content, remove it" you don't wait 24 hours to get the uploader to explain why they uploaded it. You remove it immediately.

Offline neekaneeks

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 07:14:13 AM »
Also, when established webcomic creators contact you and say "that's my content, remove it" you don't wait 24 hours to get the uploader to explain why they uploaded it. You remove it immediately.

That is my issue at large as well. I work for a very large online gallery. When questions of theft or copyright are brought up, the submission is immediately removed into hiding while we talk to both parties. It is no longer visible at all. On top of that if they cannot come to an agreement (if it was a collab) just as if it were posted without permission it is merely removed. We don't waste 24 hours to deliberate. It's pretty clear across the board with a simple statement of "No" coming from the artist/author/or what have you.

The site I work for was once in a beta stage, and had a lot of hiccups as well, but not this kind. I have trouble believing no one noticed published and non-published works being uploaded by multiple users from a pretty tight community didn't raise any red flags beforehand. Then on top of that to hear no from every single person after they sent you take down requests, but still leave it up, is a bit embarrassing on the leaderships part.

Not a great first impression, especially when these creators are feeling stolen from and now have to learn about DMCAs and copyright infringement the hard way.
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Offline chizicus

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 08:10:11 AM »
Since this thread has evolved in to a discussion about their handling of copyrighted materials, here's their first follow-up post addressing complaints: http://about.comicpanda.com/a-few-notes-on-copyright-issues/

A few things strike me as off-putting with this.

1. They didn't know what was going on. Specifically, they honestly didn't realize that people were uploading multiple webcomics without permission. For a site that wants to be a host to webcomics, I would think at least one person on staff would know enough about them to realize that "jimsmith0789" didn't create The Meek or that "lucifer9011" didn't create Phoenix Requiem.

2. They're not handling the issue immediately. I assume in a shell game of blame shifting they're giving the user who illegally uploaded the work 24 hours to take them down before doing it themselves. Not sure if this is laziness on part of the staff or what, but it comes off as incredibly unprofessional.

3. "Curators." Really? Is that what art thieves are using as a defense these days? Cripes. They're trying very carefully to keep the handful of thieving users they have already by painting these thieves as collectors and curators. Like Comic Panda is a museum! It's not their fault, they're only stealing comics that they love! We want to find a way to keep them on our site so we can continue making money off of them.


ANY company that comes off as this naive and out of touch with the community they're trying to serve isn't one I'd touch with a 10 foot pole. I'm afraid they shot themselves in a foot with this one.

Offline CMorgan

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 08:40:51 AM »
I went ahead and let Dershing know as well as a few other comic artists he's posting for as well.

Edit: that is seriously UNCOOL!

Okay everyone I know is now informed and the word is spreading. That site is getting hit with a lot of polite take down requests, but DMCA's are up next. They are hosted on GoDaddy so it would get taken down very quickly if they see more than one turned in.

okay...It's not cool. I'll edit my last post.

I cant deny that it it a very cool looking site. Its really too bad actually. I think the creators are just a little out of touch with the community because no webcomic creator would think this was ok.  :(

Offline ReinderDijkhuis

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Re: New webcomic Host!: Comic Panda.
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 08:44:18 AM »
A few things strike me as off-putting with this.

1. They didn't know what was going on. Specifically, they honestly didn't realize that people were uploading multiple webcomics without permission. For a site that wants to be a host to webcomics, I would think at least one person on staff would know enough about them to realize that "jimsmith0789" didn't create The Meek or that "lucifer9011" didn't create Phoenix Requiem.


Actually, this is one thing I'm not convinced of. The world of webcomics has become very large and also more insular internally. In a world where people in one community seriously are not aware that Order of the Stick is a hugely popular comic that rakes in the dough, I can imagine that a company with a staff of two or three people is completely unaware of the existence of The Meek or Phoenix Requiem. These are not household names.

All the other stuff I agree with though.
Reinder Dijkhuis
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